Why Margaret Thatcher Didn't Jump

The Difference Between Charisma and Charm

In recent days, apropos of seemingly nothing in particular, this clip has gone viral on TikTok and Twitter.

The interview took place in 1995, five years after Mrs Thatcher left office. She was 70 years old. The interviewer is Stina Dabrowski, a TV journalist, well known in Sweden, who specialises in interviews with the famous and powerful, a kind of Scandinavian David Frost.

Dabrowski has a ‘gimmick’ (her word): at the end of the interview she asks the interviewee to jump in the air with her. Here she is with George Soros, who can hardly wait to do his jump. Apparently, nearly all of her guests consent. But, as you can see, Thatcher flat out refuses. She is baffled by the idea. She says it’s a silly and puerile thing to ask. She doesn’t back down even after Dabrowski, who is persistent, mentions that Gorbachev did it. Mrs Thatcher is unmoved: “You amaze me.”

It’s vintage late-period Thatcher: obdurate, blunt to the point of rudeness, relentlessly serious, a little terrifying. Online, people have been amused and impressed by her direct refusal to play the interviewer’s game. She amazes us. We’re so used to politicians who will do anything to seem likeable - who, when asked to jump, will only ask “how high?”. I’ve gathered a few recent examples below, because I think the contrast tells us something important about the way that leadership has changed.